Do you get up big and then fall back?

In chatting with some of you and reading some things, I have found a common theme. I do this quite often too.

We will sit down at table, in aggregate, we will get up 50% - 100% and then we will fall back down to even. Why is this?

1. I would say with some people, it is because they play much looser once they are up - I am not this way.

2. I would say it is the luck with how the cards go - I don't seem to notice a difference in the cards or the hands

3. You took money from people and they are out to get it back - I notice this happens to me sometimes. Especially if I win a big pot from someone, they will go on tilt and play stupid. I am too conservative and as a result they bluff me out of some pots.

4. It is much easier to call an all in or a large bet with a smaller amount of chips. If I think it is a coinflip, it is easier to call an all in for $20 than an all in for $40 - I notice that sometimes I play this way and so when I get up, I am more likely to fold rather than risk a ton of chips, because most of the time, pot odds aren't there.

5. It is much easier to call value sized bets when you are up since as a % of your stack, it is much less. This is similar to loose play, but a little different. - I don't seem to ever compare the bet to my chip stack (may be a fault)...I always seem to compare to the pot size.

Just wondering if you guys have a different take as to why this happens!

I usually check which hands got me down again after I get a bigstack and check for dumb calls/raises/squeezes.

I play only tournaments, so it might be different for me in cash (never really tried lol) but usually it's just standard situations.

i ll try to answer for myself...

1. I would say with some people, it is because they play much looser once they are up - I am not this way.

not me, i might change my game because of the number of BB i have but it is not the same thing.


2. I would say it is the luck with how the cards go - I don't seem to notice a difference in the cards or the hands

Luck is for suckers


3. You took money from people and they are out to get it back - I notice this happens to me sometimes. Especially if I win a big pot from someone, they will go on tilt and play stupid. I am too conservative and as a result they bluff me out of some pots.

You need to play accordingly of course, if you took a big pot from someone he might play you more agressively for ecemple, it is important to adjust.


4. It is much easier to call an all in or a large bet with a smaller amount of chips. If I think it is a coinflip, it is easier to call an all in for $20 than an all in for $40 - I notice that sometimes I play this way and so when I get up, I am more likely to fold rather than risk a ton of chips, because most of the time, pot odds aren't there.

If it s a coin flip, pot odds will be the same if it is for 20 or 40$, this shouldn t change the way you play.

However, you have to adapt your style of play if you have a short stack or a big one. i think it is easier to play short stack when arriving at a table. On top of that, if you want to play deep, you just need to buy more chips but if you start deep, you can remove chips from the table to go on short stack mode.

I think short stack is much easier to play than deep and can be very profitable.


5. It is much easier to call value sized bets when you are up since as a % of your stack, it is much less. This is similar to loose play, but a little different. - I don't seem to ever compare the bet to my chip stack (may be a fault)...I always seem to compare to the pot size.

Bet should be done depending on the pot of course but also depending on stacks, the goal is to get all the chips of your opponent(s) and for that you need to know how many chips they have and how many you have as well in order to make the right size bet.


Reading my answers, i guess this is all happening because it is easier to play short stack than deep.

i have ran through every possibility here.

i have loosened up and watched my stack fade. this was a major problem of mine for awhile.

I like when people try to get back at me, but Im a maniac. ha.

I dont believe in luck much.

as far as the short stack/big stack thing goes i dont think you should be paying much attention to your own stacks. You should be thinking more in effective stack sizes. Say you are playing my usual 50nl full ring and have doubled up to 100 and you are debating a call on the button from a EP raiser. The EP raiser only has $25 or 50bb. In all reality you are only playing the hand w/ 50bb as well. Your big stack means nothing because you can only get 50bb in at any time in this hand. In other words you should tighten your range here like you are playing his stack instead of yours.

Now obviously this is a huge generalization and isnt true in every instance but I think this is something it took me awhile to understand.

akamma wrote:

I think short stack is much easier to play than deep and can be very profitable.

I 100% agree with you here. I always buy in for the minimum and find that when I am playing 4 tables, within 20 hands I have doubled up on atleast one of them. Don't know why I have this preference, I just do! I think it is psychologically my desire to limit downside, even at the cost of maximizing upside.

However, do you "cash out" once you are up a certain amount? I know in live cash games you can't take chips from the table and never thought about it online. Even though I guess you could just get up and then immediately sit back down.

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However, do you "cash out" once you are up a certain amount?

Usually I don t keep this certain amount long enough to cash it out

It depends on my mood, if I feel good and that I m playing good in a easy table I ll stay there, if I feel I m facing a table where I might not keep my stack I go.

I tried at first to set me goals like when I double my 20$, I go, and of course I stay around 37-38$ before I loose it so I think this limit thing is not for me, I must kind of stop thinking about the game and think about the stack do it s not good. Now I just do how I feel it.

you guys are giving up tooo much value.

i assume you are only playing premium hands, right?

so you range is something like AJ+, 66+ give or take?

I feel like you could play this range with a full stack, esp. at low stakes, and mop people up. Yes, the decisions can be a little more difficult but how hard is it to make decisions with KK?

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i assume you are only playing premium hands, right?

... and suited connector.

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how hard is it to make decisions with KK

Not really hard pf, me likey

akamma wrote:

Quote: i assume you are only playing premium hands, right? ... and suited connector.

I am not good with the math fo poker for the most part btu I believe playing suited connectors with a small stack is incorrect play. seems like to me you risk too much by calling or raising preflop, for what will be a small return when you do actually hit. i guess that depends on how much limping is going on as well.

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I believe playing suited connectors with a small stack is incorrect play.

of course, you are completely right. The sc comment was in general, not apllied to short stack play, sorry. It is a mistake to play sc with short stack. sc are profitable if you can crack a big hand AND a big stack. If you don t have a big stack yourself you can t win big pots.

with response to title, happens to me once a fortnight if im lucky

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If you don t have a big stack yourself you can t win big pots.

And that's why I would never sit shortstacked.

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Quote: If you don t have a big stack yourself you can t win big pots. And that's why I would never sit shortstacked.

Playing short stack is very comfortable and safer to get used to a table or a new limit because you can get pushed around less than if you are deep. There is less risks implied, the game is easier to play, requires less skills so in many regards, is more profitable.

Plus, for the same cash, you can enter a game higher than your normal limit doing that.

This of course only for cash game, I say that because i know you are mainly a tourney player rb.

Of course, the most profitable game is deep stack but you need a lot of skills to keep it profitable and don t go broke.

I don t put myself in the "lot of skills" category so...

i promise if you put buy-in full at 25NL game and paly like a nit you will win. doesnt take much skill to play full ring at the lower levels.

Interesting discussion.

My vote is that our concentration level is way higher when we are short stacked and we tend to relax when we double up early. Our game changes with the ease of our double-up slash chip stack early as a result.

I consciously recognize this and make a concerted effort not to let my stack backslide at any time. One of my goals is to eliminate the backslide.

That is an interesting thought...I will have to focus in on that and see if that is one of the reasons!
Thanks!