Poker Forum

Poker is a game of skills.

I think so far everybody would agree.

Poker is fun, intense and a really great game to play

I m sure everybody still agree.

So I have a question.

Why in the heel do peolple play like complete idiots during freeroll and low buy-in tourney? I m not talking about a beginner who doesn t really knows about the strategy and might not play good and get lucky once in a while.

I m talking about people deliberately making the game annoying and replace the skill part by the biggest bingo machine you ll ever seen.

Of course, if you are a good obsever you ll pick on the guy who reraise you all in with nothing everytime and you should be able to get him but how to do it when you have a full table of those?

I really don t know what is the interest of transforming the great game of poker in a uninteresting game where the ultimate bad beat is given or receive every other hand ( no quite but you get the idea ).

We have the opportunity to access cheap buy in through the internet and could make it interesting but instead of that we are just wasting this opportunity and that make me sick. Are people that stupid? Well, probably.

Sorry I just don t get it...

PS I do not put this post following a bad beat ( well I took one yesterday but it s not the reason ), it is just an overall frustration because of what I consider a pollution to the game.

you have...

"tv" poker players - meanign they learned all they need from tv
Gamblers - recreational players just looking to throw chips around
Beginners - guys who understand a little of preflop strategy but over play most of their hands postflop
Regulars - guys that are actually playing the skill game

the problem is in you average big MTT on stars there are about 2000 of the first 3 and that makes it very hard to navigate safely.

somtimes people have more money than sense and dont care how they play at the lower limits

In general, it has to do with a $/energy function. I refuse to play poker with people, even when they are first learning, if no money is gambled. Not because I want to win their money, but because, people will play different when they don't have "skin in the game".

Imagine these two different circumstance at the county fair:
1. You can go out on the bumper cars for free and whoever completes the most laps will win $1.
2. You can go out on the bumper cars for $20 and whoever wins get $80.

Which one do you think people are more likely to take serious? I personally would crash my friend in the first one, just to laugh at him!

Which one do you think people are more likely to take serious? I personally would crash my friend in the first one, just to laugh at him!

That s exactly the problem.

Cost-benefit. They are out nothing in a freeroll if they go all-in and lose. if they win that hand they start with a big stack. i've seen people do it at first and then play fo rizzle.

That doesn't explain the majority of it though. Maybe it is a game to see how far they can go if they are all-in every hand. But again, no cost if they lose.

akamma wrote

That s exactly the problem.

Exactly, until the $/energy is a function that is significant, most people won't take it serious. The good thing for us is that this behaviour will continue when they decide they are ready to play for higher stakes!

It is all a function of utility. The greater the benefit, the more they concern themself with good play! Until it is economically beneficial, they like to be haphazard. After all, calling an all in and winning with a runner runner makes for better stimulation than folding.

Unless poker is your job, why should money be such a necessary motivation? Shouldn t we be able to be competitive for the love of the game regardless of the buy-in?

Actually, it seems to me that great pro players care much about the prestige of a WTP or WSOP title than cashing at every event isn t it?

Don't we all dream of the big poker career? I know I do.

Those great pro players that you speak of don't need to care about cashing at every event. Why? They're making millions with sponsors, side projects and / or shares of a poker site.

At least the clever ones do.

Those great pro players that you speak of don't need to care about cashing at every event. Why? They're making millions with sponsors, side projects and / or shares of a poker site.

Exactly my point, do you need to cash at every tourney you play because you don t have sponsors? No because poker is not your job, it is a hobby. So why do you play? I hear about motivation about the cash to play good but anyway most of us are not making significants winnings to be a valuable point. Look at it this way, if cash is your motivation, I think it would be more profitable for most of us to stack up snickers in a CVS than play poker. So why do you play poker instead? because you take more pleasure doing it than stacking snickers at CVS.

Let s take an exemple out of poker, we know that MrD is playing sofball. obviously, he s not making a living out of it nor he will be on the next worl series. Does that make him do foulish things on the field because he doesn t take it seriously? I bet not, actually he is dedicated enough to skip the pn4fun poker tourney on Sunday to practice (ok the pn4fun is not the wsop but still.. ).

It seems we are burning a lot of opportunity to have fun and improve our game here, that s all. I don t think poker was meant to be this way and it s a shame.

Most people don't care about the game. They are selfish, lazy, and greedy. It is unfortunately the way things are now adays. What you talk about is an ideal.

The majority of people that play the low limit games don't have the mental capacity to master the game in the manner in which most of us on this site try to. As a result, they play one style and play it regardless of who they are against. Their main priority is to win money by gambling! With gambling, most people attempt to win the most amount of money with the least amount of time. How do you do that? You bet as much as possible. They want to win big on a couple hands because it requires less skill, thought, and energy than winning a small amount on a lot of hands. For them, it is a game of chance.

In the higher stakes, Darwanism has taken a strong hold. The majority of players that exist there are there because they have "earned" their bankroll through solid and consistant play. As a result, they understand the game much more and have some skill and mental fortitude to be able to play closer to your "ideal" game.

Keep this in mind though, if everyone had the ability to play perfectly, the game of skill automatically becomes a game of luck. Low levels are an opportunity for someone who does have the mental capacity to learn, to learn. From here you can see almost every type of play and be able to recognize and mimick it at the higher levels. It is very similar to a confidence level in statistics. If you add another variable, your confidence level can't ever go down. Every "different" type of player you see adds some confidence to your game.

In the end, be glad they are making the bad beats at the low levels, without those players we wouldn't be able to easily build our bank rolls to play at the next level, and even if we did, there probably wouldn't be much action at that next level.

akamma wrote

Let s take an exemple out of poker, we know that MrD is playing sofball. obviously, he s not making a living out of it nor he will be on the next worl series. Does that make him do foulish things on the field because he doesn t take it seriously? I bet not, actually he is dedicated enough to skip the pn4fun poker tourney on Sunday to practice (ok the pn4fun is not the wsop but still.. ).

Way to make this personal! LOL, J/K. And actually, we do go play in a "world series" every year. I have qualified for the last three years. The team won the division we were in a couple years ago. But, in the end, I am not one of the ones that gets paid to play, so for me it is about something greater! And, now I will start one of my long monologues.

I can actually use the softball analogy to show you a little of what I mean. I am very competitive and I coach and play. I am a geek when it comes to it and have video analyzed my swing as well as the swing of players on the team. I know most every rule out of the rule book inside and out. I am a team player who focuses in on the team winning, regardless of how I personally do. I never yell at an umpire (with the exception of one time) out of respect of the game. I give my time freely to help other people learn the game and help them excel. I think this is the most ideal example of someone who respects the game! However, I am in the minority.

1. Co-ed: I actually play one night a week on a co-ed team. The only reason I do it is because it is a night where I can go out and relax and just have fun with it. No pressure, no stress, and I don't even have to play my best. I would compare this to the home game where you play for pennies. Sometimes you make calls you shouldn't, but who cares. When the team asked me to play, they knew I didn't want to take it serious and it was fine because many of them were out there for the same reasons.

2. Social Aspect: I would say probably 80% of the people I play with outside of my competitive team are there simply to get a release from work and hang out. They drink before, during, and after the games and have fun with it. They never practice and when I give them tips to help with their swing, they could care less. They play sloppy. In the end, it is the social aspect and they don't care if they win or lose because it gets them out of the house, away from the wife, and a major excuse to drink!

3. Cheaters: You would be amazed at the number of people, even in the social leagues, that cheat by altering their bat. They could care less about hurting someone. All they want to do is hit the ball hard. They will also use illegal players and alter their ratings.

4. Selfish People: There are some people that only care about themselves. For example, I will draw more walks than most people on the team, simply because I know a walk is as good as a hit. However, there are many players out there that even when in critical situations, they will swing at a ball because they would rather get a hit than walk. (even though if they swing at the ball, they have a high probability of getting out). In addition, there are others that always swing for the fence because they want the home run. This is very selfish as you will probably pop into more outs. A good hitter will get base hit and be content with getting a single every time up at bat. However, there are many hitters that would rather get out 3 times and get a home run the 4th.

So, when it comes down to it, there are many different types of people. In the end though, when we do go to the world series, because of the time, dedication, and costs, it is teams that have a majority of the people who are there to be competitive and respect the game. Guys that are on this site are the ones that could be on our "poker tournament team". However, very few people would be like us. The majority of others have alternative motives!

[/quote]Keep this in mind though, if everyone had the ability to play perfectly, the game of skill automatically becomes a game of luck. [quote]
It s not about playing perfectly but as good as you can or at least trying to. You can try as hard as you want, you probably will never have the level to play baseball in the MLB but you ll probably be able to enjoy yourself very much and that s the main thing isn t it.
I know I had a great time playing Basketball knowing perfectly I ll never be in the NBA

we do go play in a "world series" every year

I mean the one on ESPN with the guys who refuse 25M$ contract for a year

I have a friend who is also playing for the Red Sox... the Cary, NC Red Sox , they went to the world series of the Cary, NC beer league last year

Just picking on you

akamma wrote

I have a friend who is also playing for the Red Sox... the Cary, NC Red Sox , they went to the world series of the Cary, NC beer league last year

Just picking on you

HAHA, is there any softball league that isn't a beer league??????????? Your picking on me doesn't bother me...just remember payback is always as bad as the river!