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Very good to see José Macedo making good. People are going to make mistakes in life, and this was one that looks like it taught him a valuable lesson that he's willing to work past and move forward from. Good for him.
JudgeBoba14 — The WSOP landing a deal with a airfare provider would be huge for them, both in terms of the WSOP each sumer and the WSOP Circuit events held year round. One would think that if the MSPT has the capabilities to land such a deal, the WSOP should be able to do so as well given it's the biggest brand in the game.
inmytaxi — I agree with you, but there's a point whence competition turns into cannibalization, specifically within the poker industry. Tours can compete for numbers, for who is the best, etc., but doing so at the cost of diluting the player pool is bad for the game in the long run. You want as many players as possible going from stop to stop, not percentages of players going to different stops. There is plenty of room in the calendar for all to exist.
RichardS — When events get bigger numbers and larger prize pools, more players — newer, recreational, whatever you want to call them — are attracted to them game. People become less and less attracted to poker when fields are smaller and less money can be won.
JudgeBoba14, RichardS — RIchard is right here, at least with regards to Phil Ivey. Plus, you have to remember that given the statuses of these two in poker, they will never have any trouble finding backing or investment to get back into the game. I'm not saying they're broke or hurting by any means, but they will always be able to stay in action. Ivey does regularly play the biggest game in Macau, which one would think he does very, very well in. He also did kick off the year by winning AU$4 million at the Aussie Millions.
As for Gus Hansen, he does seem to lose a lot online, but someone like Hansen I believe has plenty of investments outside of poker where his money is working for him. He had money from an online site he sold several years ago, Full Tilt monthly payments, and book royalties, to name a few things. Plus, he did win a ton when he stormed onto the scene. I've also heard through some sources that he's been doing very well in some private open-face Chinese poker games.
PANTTERAA — I thought the same thing when I read the list of names. I think someone like Daniel Negreanu, Olivier Busquet, Antonio Esfandiari, Jason Somerville, or Dan O'Brien would be great.
PartyScout — I've always been a fan of Ivey, yes. I think the majority of everyone involved in poker one way or another is a fan of his. I'm also huge fan of Andy Bloch and the MIT Blackjack Team, which is basically the same thing as what Ivey did, in my opinion.
Chad_Holloway — I wish we all knew the exact true story of what all went down at Full Tilt Poker, first. I think we'd all be a little more upset if this was Howard Lederer simply because he'd be gambling with money that supposedly came from all of us players. That'd be my biggest issue if this was Lederer.
Awesome read, Mac. Very informative about the legal inner workings that goes into a lawsuit like this. I think this piece definitely lends itself to further showing Phil Ivey didn't really do anything wrong or illegal here. Sure, it may be frowned upon by the casino, but Ivey took an edge he had against them and it just seems they are mad and chasing their losses.
Juffinn6 — After all that happened with online poker in the U.S. and the legal issues a site like PokerStars is having after operating in the States following the UIGEA, it seems other sites are taking the "safe" route in other countries when any sort of pressure is placed on their operations legally. Hopefully it all gets ironed out sooner than later. Poker needs to be allowed everywhere.
RichardS — Will definitely be great for poker in Vanessa Selbst is able to finish at the top of the GPI in 2014, but I'm not sure here schedule of events that she'll be playing would allow for it. She doesn't put in a ton of volume like some of these other players.
She is open about going to for European Poker Tour Player of the Year title, though, which would be great. She's currently second to Ole Schemion in that race with the Grand Final in Monte Carlo coming up. I don't think her earning this title would do leaps and bounds for poker on a global scale, because it's only the EPT, but it should do a lot of the game and women in poker in Europe.
pamelam and JamesL — Agree. Ivey did make a vast amount of requests and the casino honored them. The casino is responsible for inspection of all gaming materials that go into play. Ivey sought out an edge and took it. If anyone is at fault here, it's Gemaco for printing a defaulted deck of cards.
Chad_Holloway — How is this any different than seeking out a casino venue that would use a different deck size blackjack shoe for counting? How is it any different than finding a place where the roulette wheels have just one zero instead of two?
Spirit of the game? You mean the game the casino is always trying to increase its edge against the player in order to win money? Outside of poker, there is no "spirit of the game" in casinos. They're pushing every edge against you, and a player is never going to be a winner. That's a fact. This is similar to card counting, in my opinion. Yes, it's frowned upon by casinos, but it's not illegal and is a tactic used by players to increase their edge.
The casino knew full well what it was getting into here, as do all casinos. The fact that they lost and then went after the money is pretty absurd. It's not like Ivey showed up at the casino, marked the cards with invisible ink, and used special glasses to see the markings. That's cheating. This is not.
BASSCRUISER — "Take a little hit here and you'll make it up easily through participation in future tournaments."
That is a very, very true statement here. The best example I can see from this would be what PokerStars did in buying up Full Tilt Poker, including it's debt to players and reimbursing it. PokerStars is now seen as a savior, and rightfully so, in the eyes of many.
For everyone here claiming Phil Ivey lacks ethics or pointing out that he did something wrong, he didn't. Like DutchBoyd1 said, "Ivey won by exploiting their own defective equipment" and that is him simply gaining an edge over the casino. This is exactly what casinos do to all players in their games — they exploit the edges they have in order for the house to have the winning edge in all games.
RichardS — You bring up a good point about what people spend their money on, but it's funny that states oppose online gambling yet the majority of them have some form of lottery. When we're specifically talking about online poker — a game of skill — it's very hypocritical for a state to disallow online poker to become legal but allow lotteries to be legal.
As of right now, only six states in the U.S. don't have some form of lottery, which, as we all know, is a complete gamble with no skill involved whatsoever.
RichardS — I think what you're trying to get at is that online poker works as a feeder system to live venues, whether it be cash or tournaments. I agree with this, and oftentimes people get their start in poker through testing out the game online. For one, these players can play for a fraction of the cost it takes to learn at a live venue because the buy-ins are much, much smaller. Second, you're not visible, so making mistakes behind a computer screen doesn't come with the embarrassment of being in the flesh. Third, online poker sites tend to offer a much wider variety of games to try out, whereas most casinos or card rooms are limited, mostly to hold'em.
State-by-state online poker also increases the reach of various live venues that opt into having a site. Take Nevada, for example. Reno and Las Vegas are the two big cities with plentiful options of live casinos, but not everyone wants to drive the distance to and from them on a daily basis. With online poker available to an entire state, everyone within state boundaries is able to play, so casinos are still pulling in some form of revenue from those players who aren't able to physically make it to the venue.
Fezz — You make some good points, particularly that there needs to be a larger presence standing up for poker-playing rights. Would love to see a greater movement in this regard going forward and fighting for poker in the U.S.
bgpoker419 — I don't entirely agree here. Brick-and-mortar casinos lasted long before online poker and online gambling were available. They continued to last when online poker was taken away in the U.S., and have also lasted in jurisdictions around the world where no online gaming was available. While I disagree with you that brick-and-mortar casinos would die without online gaming, I agree with you that brick-and-mortar casinos could definitely benefit from online gaming, which I think is the bigger picture that needs focus.
zzjitterzz — Sorry about that. Misread the MSPT schedule. Thanks, and good luck in the event!
RichardS — As long as he keeps playing a decent volume of events, I suspect the same.
svizac — I second what Rich responded with. Keep in mind that uncapping the event might actually hurt numbers and make the field size much smaller than expected. When businessmen and amateurs know that pros can keep checking the field and the size right up until start time to jump in, it makes them think the died size could grow to something completely unwanted on their behalf.
zzjitterzz — According to the Full Tilt Poker website's description of Flip Tournaments, "Players begin each Flip Tournament with 10 chips and most tournaments conclude within a few hands." The flip round is a shootout style, so the players would flip until a winner is determined.
Onmyway — After the flip round, "All players who reach the second round in a regular Flipout Tournament will share in the prize pool. The remaining entrants are reseated at new tables and the tournament continues with a standard betting structure." That said, it sounds like things will "reset" to a normal multi-table tournament following the flip round.